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1 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:23:24am

You're right to be on guard. I'm on guard too, and I think calls to "End the Fed" usually come from anti-Semites, but I think people who hold that position are a very small minority among OWS protestors, and in some cases, just Paulbots trying to ride coattails.

The closer I look, the smaller that problem seems to be, and the more the focus on it seems to be coming from wingnuts who are cherry-picking video clips.

2 Samson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 12:07:53pm

re: #1 wrenchwench

Yes, I agree. But let's not kid ourselves, there really are some anti-semites associated with the OWS protesters:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

The real problem is not that there are some anti-semites associated with OWS. Although that may be a concern, it is barely newsworthy, except when someone gets fired from their job because of it.

The real problem is that there are anti-semites everywhere. On the right, the left and the middle. I think Tom Lehrer said it best in his song National Brotherhood Week:

Oh, the white folks hate the black folks,
And the black folks hate the white folks.
To hate all but the right folks
Is an old established rule.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
Lena Horne and Sheriff Clarke are dancing cheek to cheek.
It's fun to eulogize
The people you despise,
As long as you don't let 'em in your school.

Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,
And the rich folks hate the poor folks.
All of my folks hate all of your folks,
It's American as apple pie.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic.
Step up and shake the hand
Of someone you can't stand.
You can tolerate him if you try.

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
And everybody hates the Jews.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
It's National Everyone-smile-at-one-another-hood Week.
Be nice to people who
Are inferior to you.
It's only for a week, so have no fear.
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!

3 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 12:41:55pm

re: #2 Samson

I'm a big Tom Lehrer fan.

there really are some anti-semites associated with the OWS protesters

The question there is what "associated with" means. Hanging out in the same park? Or influencing the agenda?

The real problem is that there are anti-semites everywhere.

Agreed. But carry on we must.

4 DesertDenizen  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 1:49:57pm

I just had a fascinating argument with someone about this after I mentioned there were racists in the Tea Party. My evidence? The local TP steering committee meets next to my office. I hear them every week. I have heard the "n-bomb" dropped in reference to Obama. But no, I am apparently stereotyping, as all "libs" (sic) do, but anyway OWS is all anti-semites anyway; "look at the teenage girl with the sign about atonement." Sigh. I won't miss rural Arizona border country.

5 ReamWorks SKG  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 4:28:43pm

I've noticed a disturbing shift here on LGF.

It used to be a place where people who had views that weren't "cookie cutter" can discuss things rationally.

But lately, especially about this issue, I'm confronted with people who believe that anyone who is critical of OWS is some mad Tea Party supporter.

Frankly, I don't like OWS or the Tea Party because they're both unfocused groups that encourage extremist views.

6 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 4:44:49pm

re: #5 reuven

I've noticed a disturbing shift here on LGF.

It used to be a place where people who had views that weren't "cookie cutter" can discuss things rationally.

But lately, especially about this issue, I'm confronted with people who believe that anyone who is critical of OWS is some mad Tea Party supporter.

Frankly, I don't like OWS or the Tea Party because they're both unfocused groups that encourage extremist views.

I hope you don't take my mention of "wingnuts" as saying I think you are one. I think you may be falling for the wingnut line of thought on OWS, but I don't think you are one.

I don't think DesertDenizen was saying you are a Tea Party supporter either.

I have seen some of what you describe, but certainly not enough to call it a disturbing shift.

7 BishopX  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 5:58:52pm

re: #5 reuven

I've noticed a disturbing shift here on LGF.

It used to be a place where people who had views that weren't "cookie cutter" can discuss things rationally.

But lately, especially about this issue, I'm confronted with people who believe that anyone who is critical of OWS is some mad Tea Party supporter.

Frankly, I don't like OWS or the Tea Party because they're both unfocused groups that encourage extremist views.

The thing about cookie cutters cuts both ways. There is an overall level of cautious support for OWS at LGF, but there is also a highly specific subset of beliefs among people critical of OWS. The reason that people are reacting harshly when other express concerns about OWS is that we keep hearing the same talking points over, and over and over. The standard list goes something like this:

- There are anti-Semites at some Occupy protests (OccupyLA and OccupyDenver seems to get the most mention, although the occasional OccupyWallStreet protestor shows up), they may or may not be billed as "spokespersons". Never mind that there are no spokespersons in the movement.
- The occupy movement needs to condemn the anti-Semites. Never mind that there is no national movement.
-The occupy movement needs to clarify it's demands. Never mind that numerous lists of demands and statements of purpose have been produced.
-The occupy movement isn't coherent enough to maintain a sufficient level of ideological purity.
-Socialists and Anarchists are running the show and everyone else is being duped. Never mind that the occupy movement has a broad base of support (~40% of the american populace).

I get that not everyone reads everything posted here. But we've been arguing over this specific set of talking points for more than two weeks now. It's getting old and many of us are getting snappish.

So let me say this once and for all. I'm fine with you not liking/trusting/approving of the occupy movement. I'm happy to have a discussion with you about it, but if you come in here with yet another right wing smear job and talk about how it raises disturbing issues I'm going to laugh in your face and walk away.


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